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	<title>Comments on: Nate McLouth Traded To Braves</title>
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		<title>By: Paneech</title>
		<link>http://paneech.com/2009/06/nate-mclouth-traded-to-braves/#comment-369</link>
		<dc:creator>Paneech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paneech.com/?p=442#comment-369</guid>
		<description>(Not as) Big Mo... You make many good points, but I still think they could have gotten Jordan Shaffer since the Braves are unhappy with him anyway.  Half of a Tom Glavine would be better than all of a Gorzellany or Chacon, the Pirates could have asked for him.  The Pirates have gone the &quot;prospects&quot; route you speak of for over 15 years and it hasn&#039;t amounted to a .500 season yet.  

How long will the baseball fans of Pittsburgh be bamboozled by this scheme?  

I hope you are right and I also hope I can say I am wrong, but I have two things on my side in this debate, - history and progress.  The Pirates have shown nothing to either of those two things in a very long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Not as) Big Mo&#8230; You make many good points, but I still think they could have gotten Jordan Shaffer since the Braves are unhappy with him anyway.  Half of a Tom Glavine would be better than all of a Gorzellany or Chacon, the Pirates could have asked for him.  The Pirates have gone the &#8220;prospects&#8221; route you speak of for over 15 years and it hasn&#8217;t amounted to a .500 season yet.  </p>
<p>How long will the baseball fans of Pittsburgh be bamboozled by this scheme?  </p>
<p>I hope you are right and I also hope I can say I am wrong, but I have two things on my side in this debate, &#8211; history and progress.  The Pirates have shown nothing to either of those two things in a very long time.</p>
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		<title>By: (Not as) Big Mo</title>
		<link>http://paneech.com/2009/06/nate-mclouth-traded-to-braves/#comment-367</link>
		<dc:creator>(Not as) Big Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paneech.com/?p=442#comment-367</guid>
		<description>I actually called my good friend Dr. Kato, a big Bucs fan, yesterday to tell him I liked the deal.  But I think it&#039;s because I&#039;m not as high on McClouth as some others are.  

Yes he won a gold glove, but that&#039;s overrated (Raffy Palmeiro won a GG in a year in which he played 13 games in the field) and he was an all-star last year (but would he have been if he wasn&#039;t the Pirates&#039; required rep?).  At the end of the day, I think he&#039;s a .275-.280 hitter with 25 homers and 25-30 steals.  Good numbers, sure, but there are plenty of players who put up those numbers and aren&#039;t superstars.  But because the Pirates are so bereft of offensive talent, he looks like Willie Mays.

When this current administration took over, the organization had a bare cupboard when it came to talent- especially major-league ready.  Because of the moves they&#039;ve made they finally have some of that now (McCutcheon, Bixler, Pearce, Steven Jackson, Tabata, etc.) and they&#039;re going to need places for these guys to play.   If they think that McCutcheon is ready and that he&#039;ll be a better player than what they have now, they have to free up that space.

Now, you might ask &quot;why not get McClouth and McCutcheon on the field together?&quot;  I think they could if they were in a different situation.  There are so many holes that they need to fill, I think they looked at the situation and saw an opportunity to maximize on McClouth&#039;s value and add needed pieces to the organization.  If they hold on to both, does it make them a better team in the long run?  Maybe.  But it&#039;s probably more likely that instead of losing a game 4-2 they&#039;d be losing 4-3.  I don&#039;t think McClouth is that big a difference maker to justify not taking advantage of a situation and maxing out his value.  Essentially, they got 4 players for McClouth because they received pretty highly regarded prospects and freed up a spot for McCutcheon to play everyday. 

Now, did they get enough in return?  That&#039;s debatable and only time will tell (I love reading how other teams would have offerend more than the Braves did- how do we know that?).  Will McClouth go on to have an all-star season or career (like Bay) or will he have hit his high water mark and settle as a mid-level player (like Nady- a deal that looks better each day for the Pirates and worse for someone like me who is a Yankee fan).  Again, perhaps because he&#039;s the best player on that team (which might be akin to being the world&#039;s tallest midget), fans could have a distorted view of his value.  He&#039;s not Mark Teixeria.  He&#039;s not Johan Santana. Or CC Sabathia.  He&#039;s not a guy who is going to net the very top prospects from a team like those guys did.  However, right now he is a good enough trade piece to get some quality talent that a lot of people think can play the game at a very high level.  For a organization that sorely lacks talent like that, it&#039;s worth the gamble.  They weren&#039;t going to the playoffs with McClouth being the best player on their team.  He&#039;s not that type of player. 

I don&#039;t think this is the Pirates management continuing a trend of being cheap, as the previous group did.  I think this group is genuinely trying to max out its opportunities to build the organization from top to bottom to sustain success in the long term.  I know after 16 losing seasons, the fan base doesn&#039;t have much patience, but the organization was so poorly mismanaged for a decade that it will take some time.  But, it can be done. 

Again, guys are prospects for a reason and all three may fizzle out and McClouth goes on to be a 8-time all-star.  I wouldn&#039;t bet on that, but it could happen.  Prospects are called that for a reason.  But if I&#039;m the Pirates, I&#039;ll take that chance because if it works out it can sustain me for several years of competing,  not just keeping this team as is presently constructed to finish maybe finish 5 games under .500 by the end of the year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually called my good friend Dr. Kato, a big Bucs fan, yesterday to tell him I liked the deal.  But I think it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m not as high on McClouth as some others are.  </p>
<p>Yes he won a gold glove, but that&#8217;s overrated (Raffy Palmeiro won a GG in a year in which he played 13 games in the field) and he was an all-star last year (but would he have been if he wasn&#8217;t the Pirates&#8217; required rep?).  At the end of the day, I think he&#8217;s a .275-.280 hitter with 25 homers and 25-30 steals.  Good numbers, sure, but there are plenty of players who put up those numbers and aren&#8217;t superstars.  But because the Pirates are so bereft of offensive talent, he looks like Willie Mays.</p>
<p>When this current administration took over, the organization had a bare cupboard when it came to talent- especially major-league ready.  Because of the moves they&#8217;ve made they finally have some of that now (McCutcheon, Bixler, Pearce, Steven Jackson, Tabata, etc.) and they&#8217;re going to need places for these guys to play.   If they think that McCutcheon is ready and that he&#8217;ll be a better player than what they have now, they have to free up that space.</p>
<p>Now, you might ask &#8220;why not get McClouth and McCutcheon on the field together?&#8221;  I think they could if they were in a different situation.  There are so many holes that they need to fill, I think they looked at the situation and saw an opportunity to maximize on McClouth&#8217;s value and add needed pieces to the organization.  If they hold on to both, does it make them a better team in the long run?  Maybe.  But it&#8217;s probably more likely that instead of losing a game 4-2 they&#8217;d be losing 4-3.  I don&#8217;t think McClouth is that big a difference maker to justify not taking advantage of a situation and maxing out his value.  Essentially, they got 4 players for McClouth because they received pretty highly regarded prospects and freed up a spot for McCutcheon to play everyday. </p>
<p>Now, did they get enough in return?  That&#8217;s debatable and only time will tell (I love reading how other teams would have offerend more than the Braves did- how do we know that?).  Will McClouth go on to have an all-star season or career (like Bay) or will he have hit his high water mark and settle as a mid-level player (like Nady- a deal that looks better each day for the Pirates and worse for someone like me who is a Yankee fan).  Again, perhaps because he&#8217;s the best player on that team (which might be akin to being the world&#8217;s tallest midget), fans could have a distorted view of his value.  He&#8217;s not Mark Teixeria.  He&#8217;s not Johan Santana. Or CC Sabathia.  He&#8217;s not a guy who is going to net the very top prospects from a team like those guys did.  However, right now he is a good enough trade piece to get some quality talent that a lot of people think can play the game at a very high level.  For a organization that sorely lacks talent like that, it&#8217;s worth the gamble.  They weren&#8217;t going to the playoffs with McClouth being the best player on their team.  He&#8217;s not that type of player. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this is the Pirates management continuing a trend of being cheap, as the previous group did.  I think this group is genuinely trying to max out its opportunities to build the organization from top to bottom to sustain success in the long term.  I know after 16 losing seasons, the fan base doesn&#8217;t have much patience, but the organization was so poorly mismanaged for a decade that it will take some time.  But, it can be done. </p>
<p>Again, guys are prospects for a reason and all three may fizzle out and McClouth goes on to be a 8-time all-star.  I wouldn&#8217;t bet on that, but it could happen.  Prospects are called that for a reason.  But if I&#8217;m the Pirates, I&#8217;ll take that chance because if it works out it can sustain me for several years of competing,  not just keeping this team as is presently constructed to finish maybe finish 5 games under .500 by the end of the year.</p>
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